Transcript of White Fragility Podcast
hello and welcome to white woman whisper
the podcast
i'm your host rebecca aka white woman
whisperer aka professional black friend
uh i
hear the cure caucasity to constructive
conversations using
uh alliterations
acronyms
anecdotes and analogies
so
here we are
and
today i want to talk to you about
fragility
specifically white fragility
quotes around all of that um
if you listen to
my last episode
um you know i've got some issues and
today i'd like to talk about exactly
what they are
now let's just begin with
logic
fragility
like you're fragile
just like
wrong like look at all the evidence
right you
are the people who invented beauty is
pain
you will go to a man to break your nose
pay him thousands of dollars to break
your nose so that it looks like a little
different but not a lot different so
like people talk about it but don't talk
about it like you just look great but no
one addresses that thing like you will
pay to do that just for like a little
difference that doesn't actually add to
your life so i'm just not buying this
whole super fragile
little egg thing
um also look what you'll do for a dog
like is there a sad pit bull out in an
erupting volcano let's go get him
and also
let's
get them because let's not gender that
dog
i feel like you know you know what i'm
saying you just you are so capable you
are so capable you are not fragile and
it just doesn't make any sense
like
i respect you too much
is what i'm saying
you're you're fragile in the way that
babies are fragile yeah where they're
not
like you think so because they cry a lot
but
that's part of the
the thing that they're babies right
they're not fragile and
if you spend all of your time and energy
with a baby just ensuring that they
don't cry or they're like never
uncomfortable
that's not going to turn out to be a
great adult
right you're not doing a great job if
all you're trying to do is make sure
they never cry
right like you don't give them shots
because that'll hurt them and that we
don't want to make them uncomfortable
comfort is not the goal
never has been
but until
white supremacy came along it demands
comfort
and that is the ultimate goal just
comfort the truth is not comfortable
especially where this is considered so
we gotta get comfortable with being
uncomfortable and you are there you have
the capacity so just putting the word
fragile on a group of people who have
demonstrated the opposite it just
doesn't work in my brain
anyway
the other
issues i'm having is like
people are making decisions based off of
this concept of white fragility
i don't know how
and like
you
you should make decisions based on the
impact they have
not
why you're doing them you know i guess
that's impact over intent but like
for real
put it where it goes like make decisions
based on the weight of the impact right
um and if you don't know something
don't make a decision on it
don't label something you are not
familiar with it is okay not to know
something
you know if if you're not black maybe
you don't speak on
blackness just in general the experience
which brings me
to my second beef with white fragility
robin deangelo
is now like the face of it
apparently it was created by
a person of color as a term to describe
stuff but now it's related to this book
white fragility and this woman white
woman who wrote this book white
fragility
how is that helpful
to the black community to the black
women i'm assuming she is referring to
in terms of
what happens when
white people are fragile or something
it just
it's so
representative of what the larger issue
is
this white woman commandeered a phrase
created by a person of color and is now
profiting off of it donating a small
percentage from what i'm told
to charities or something and is
continuing to write books and make a lot
of money
on the book and on speaking engagements
to talk about the trauma
white women cause
or white people but you know
like i i
what
i got beef i got beef i got beef with
her i got beef with the publishers i got
b for the concept it's not really hurt i
don't know that lady but i got beef
and before you get upset
or feel weird about the fact that you
liked the book or recommended the book
or you know
whatever you you liked it it helped you
get to a certain place that's fine
whatever it doesn't matter
you know whatever your personal feelings
are
just remember that
they're wrong mine are right just just
i'm kidding just um
listen and just create new understanding
with this information it's not it's not
that big of a deal if you recommended it
if you read it if you liked it it's just
look at it again right let's let's
re-re-evaluate why you liked it why it
exists and
what it actually did to help you
and i'm gonna tell you it wasn't much
but that's a little spoiler alert
um
we know you're well intentioned i know
everything but you know
it
the book especially i feel
has left a lot of people with this
concept of like it's unavoidable you are
um fragile and you are gonna you know
have these fragile moments and it's
gonna be harmful to other people and
okay like that's just what it is um is
it's unavoidable involvement and racism
that you're gonna have and how do you
personally
harm people
in some way
and
how does that save
black people again
like in what
world is you saying
i'm super harmful sometimes
end of sentence like that's that has
helped zero people in fact it's very
harmful it's very traumatizing
um
the other like did you have to be
convinced by her like you probably
already knew
conceptually that you know
microaggressions exist and they are
harmful and all that stuff did did she
convince you of something new
don't don't answer the question it's
just like if that's true ew
you had to be convinced by her like
what'd she say that was different
has she did she say anything different
than something a black person has like
literally said on this app or somewhere
else or to your face
for free
you know
or if they haven't then why not i don't
know
just and especially those who have
recommended white fragility to me oh to
be clear by the way i should have
started with i haven't read this book
i have not read this book
because i don't need to spend my time
getting angry
um i already i got the gist
and i want to tell you something
my third and most important point here
is that awareness
is not anti-racism
being aware of something
is not
doing anything about it
knowledge does not change behavior
i have recommended the book switch
before i'm not sure if i've done it on
this podcast um by dan and chip heath
h-e-a-t-h
um and
they i just it's just so it's a really
good book to read about change and like
changing behavior and kind of just the
proportionality of it but
they said you know knowledge does not
ever change behavior we could do
pages and pages of research and years of
development on a topic and none of that
will actually change what that thing is
look jane elliott has been doing the
jane elliott thing for years
for so long decades and decades and and
the blue green experiment and talking
about you know the harm why people cause
but has that changed anything like i
love me some jane elliott it was super
inspiring
but we were still here like have you
seen outside
like
what it did that do what did it how did
it actually impact us what is the
objective outcome here because
we just know
and now we're armed with like a
certainty and and also like welp
it doesn't arm us with any tools to move
forward with
so
when you think about it it kind of
refers back to one of my earlier
episodes about like 1d versus
3d
you think about the term fragility
white fragility
what is
the subject of white fragility
what is this center matter
in white fragility
whiteness of course and your impact and
like what you do and how you react to
stuff
um who's the subject in white fragility
like what's the main character
what is the impact
when you
do this exploration or you
um
perform a white fragility
you do it
um what happens do you have a clear
understanding of
what happens like what the result is or
what
the other perspective is
um do you know what to do about it how
not to do it
um i mean if you're listening to me at
this point if you're here you know what
how not to do it right but
just based on what we've done so far
um
like what do you what do you do about it
oh i have what there's white fragility
okay and the thought that oh you have to
be comfortable with being uncomfortable
also puts the burden on us
black folk to make you uncomfortable so
that you can practice
right in this scenario of like just be
uncomfortable be comfortable being
uncomfortable or sit with it and when
you get told something don't but that
assumes we're going to tell you
i get i mean look at the interactions i
get on tick tock where it's like i'm the
safest as can be and i'm not even
addressing anyone personally
and people feel personally attacked so
it also puts the burden on society to
show you yourself and you to practice
and to acknowledge it it's just
it's it's marred with issues for me
for me
now
instead of white fragility
we should be using white volatility and
i want to shout out casey davis domestic
blisters for giving me this because she
brought his finger she was like what do
you think about volatility it's like
this is perfect
volatility because
think think about volatility is this 1d
or 3d you know what's the subject of
white volatility
it's the violence
it's the volatility
it's it's what is happening it is the
three-dimensional it has to acknowledge
that there's a person there it has to
acknowledge there's an environment
there's context
um what's the impact of volatility
sounds like harm
what's the impact of fragility again and
say somebody's
no volatility
we it's scary it can go in many
directions right and it happens quickly
and now what how do you avoid being
volatile
that's pretty easy right you you remove