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Transcript of White Fragility Podcast

hello and welcome to white woman whisper

the podcast

i'm your host rebecca aka white woman

whisperer aka professional black friend

uh i

hear the cure caucasity to constructive

conversations using

uh alliterations


anecdotes and analogies


here we are


today i want to talk to you about


specifically white fragility

quotes around all of that um

if you listen to

my last episode

um you know i've got some issues and

today i'd like to talk about exactly

what they are

now let's just begin with



like you're fragile

just like

wrong like look at all the evidence

right you

are the people who invented beauty is


you will go to a man to break your nose

pay him thousands of dollars to break

your nose so that it looks like a little

different but not a lot different so

like people talk about it but don't talk

about it like you just look great but no

one addresses that thing like you will

pay to do that just for like a little

difference that doesn't actually add to

your life so i'm just not buying this

whole super fragile

little egg thing

um also look what you'll do for a dog

like is there a sad pit bull out in an

erupting volcano let's go get him

and also


get them because let's not gender that


i feel like you know you know what i'm

saying you just you are so capable you

are so capable you are not fragile and

it just doesn't make any sense


i respect you too much

is what i'm saying

you're you're fragile in the way that

babies are fragile yeah where they're


like you think so because they cry a lot


that's part of the

the thing that they're babies right

they're not fragile and

if you spend all of your time and energy

with a baby just ensuring that they

don't cry or they're like never


that's not going to turn out to be a

great adult

right you're not doing a great job if

all you're trying to do is make sure

they never cry

right like you don't give them shots

because that'll hurt them and that we

don't want to make them uncomfortable

comfort is not the goal

never has been

but until

white supremacy came along it demands


and that is the ultimate goal just

comfort the truth is not comfortable

especially where this is considered so

we gotta get comfortable with being

uncomfortable and you are there you have

the capacity so just putting the word

fragile on a group of people who have

demonstrated the opposite it just

doesn't work in my brain


the other

issues i'm having is like

people are making decisions based off of

this concept of white fragility

i don't know how

and like


you should make decisions based on the

impact they have


why you're doing them you know i guess

that's impact over intent but like

for real

put it where it goes like make decisions

based on the weight of the impact right

um and if you don't know something

don't make a decision on it

don't label something you are not

familiar with it is okay not to know


you know if if you're not black maybe

you don't speak on

blackness just in general the experience

which brings me

to my second beef with white fragility

robin deangelo

is now like the face of it

apparently it was created by

a person of color as a term to describe

stuff but now it's related to this book

white fragility and this woman white

woman who wrote this book white


how is that helpful

to the black community to the black

women i'm assuming she is referring to

in terms of

what happens when

white people are fragile or something

it just

it's so

representative of what the larger issue


this white woman commandeered a phrase

created by a person of color and is now

profiting off of it donating a small

percentage from what i'm told

to charities or something and is

continuing to write books and make a lot

of money

on the book and on speaking engagements

to talk about the trauma

white women cause

or white people but you know

like i i


i got beef i got beef i got beef with

her i got beef with the publishers i got

b for the concept it's not really hurt i

don't know that lady but i got beef

and before you get upset

or feel weird about the fact that you

liked the book or recommended the book

or you know

whatever you you liked it it helped you

get to a certain place that's fine

whatever it doesn't matter

you know whatever your personal feelings


just remember that

they're wrong mine are right just just

i'm kidding just um

listen and just create new understanding

with this information it's not it's not

that big of a deal if you recommended it

if you read it if you liked it it's just

look at it again right let's let's

re-re-evaluate why you liked it why it

exists and

what it actually did to help you

and i'm gonna tell you it wasn't much

but that's a little spoiler alert


we know you're well intentioned i know

everything but you know


the book especially i feel

has left a lot of people with this

concept of like it's unavoidable you are

um fragile and you are gonna you know

have these fragile moments and it's

gonna be harmful to other people and

okay like that's just what it is um is

it's unavoidable involvement and racism

that you're gonna have and how do you


harm people

in some way


how does that save

black people again

like in what

world is you saying

i'm super harmful sometimes

end of sentence like that's that has

helped zero people in fact it's very

harmful it's very traumatizing


the other like did you have to be

convinced by her like you probably

already knew

conceptually that you know

microaggressions exist and they are

harmful and all that stuff did did she

convince you of something new

don't don't answer the question it's

just like if that's true ew

you had to be convinced by her like

what'd she say that was different

has she did she say anything different

than something a black person has like

literally said on this app or somewhere

else or to your face

for free

you know

or if they haven't then why not i don't


just and especially those who have

recommended white fragility to me oh to

be clear by the way i should have

started with i haven't read this book

i have not read this book

because i don't need to spend my time

getting angry

um i already i got the gist

and i want to tell you something

my third and most important point here

is that awareness

is not anti-racism

being aware of something

is not

doing anything about it

knowledge does not change behavior

i have recommended the book switch

before i'm not sure if i've done it on

this podcast um by dan and chip heath


um and

they i just it's just so it's a really

good book to read about change and like

changing behavior and kind of just the

proportionality of it but

they said you know knowledge does not

ever change behavior we could do

pages and pages of research and years of

development on a topic and none of that

will actually change what that thing is

look jane elliott has been doing the

jane elliott thing for years

for so long decades and decades and and

the blue green experiment and talking

about you know the harm why people cause

but has that changed anything like i

love me some jane elliott it was super


but we were still here like have you

seen outside


what it did that do what did it how did

it actually impact us what is the

objective outcome here because

we just know

and now we're armed with like a

certainty and and also like welp

it doesn't arm us with any tools to move

forward with


when you think about it it kind of

refers back to one of my earlier

episodes about like 1d versus


you think about the term fragility

white fragility

what is

the subject of white fragility

what is this center matter

in white fragility

whiteness of course and your impact and

like what you do and how you react to


um who's the subject in white fragility

like what's the main character

what is the impact

when you

do this exploration or you


perform a white fragility

you do it

um what happens do you have a clear

understanding of

what happens like what the result is or


the other perspective is

um do you know what to do about it how

not to do it

um i mean if you're listening to me at

this point if you're here you know what

how not to do it right but

just based on what we've done so far


like what do you what do you do about it

oh i have what there's white fragility

okay and the thought that oh you have to

be comfortable with being uncomfortable

also puts the burden on us

black folk to make you uncomfortable so

that you can practice

right in this scenario of like just be

uncomfortable be comfortable being

uncomfortable or sit with it and when

you get told something don't but that

assumes we're going to tell you

i get i mean look at the interactions i

get on tick tock where it's like i'm the

safest as can be and i'm not even

addressing anyone personally

and people feel personally attacked so

it also puts the burden on society to

show you yourself and you to practice

and to acknowledge it it's just

it's it's marred with issues for me

for me


instead of white fragility

we should be using white volatility and

i want to shout out casey davis domestic

blisters for giving me this because she

brought his finger she was like what do

you think about volatility it's like

this is perfect

volatility because

think think about volatility is this 1d

or 3d you know what's the subject of

white volatility

it's the violence

it's the volatility

it's it's what is happening it is the

three-dimensional it has to acknowledge

that there's a person there it has to

acknowledge there's an environment

there's context

um what's the impact of volatility

sounds like harm

what's the impact of fragility again and

say somebody's

no volatility

we it's scary it can go in many

directions right and it happens quickly

and now what how do you avoid being


that's pretty easy right you you remove

yourself you sit down you be quiet you

don't put yourself in positions that

will cause an issue

you listen you learn more about the

thing you actually learn more you you

start getting empathy because you care

about these things you care that you're

harming someone or not it's hard to care

that you're fragile like

i'm fragile it's just but if you're a

volatile person

to other people you should i believe

that you care so it's just a little

easier to do something about it

and if you want some like tangible now

what's you know give money to black


and give money who to people who are

doing things

for other humans

for free

because if they're doing it for free

when they do get resources they're going

to continue to do these good things

that is one thing that history can teach

you in the moment

giving more to things that have not

produced and not accomplished what you

hope they accomplish in all this time is


you know the definition of insanity

doing the same thing and

expecting different results

and that's why i want you to give

directly to black people don't give to

these organizations and just hope that

they send it to the right thing because

they're run by people

who don't have the end in mind of the

people you know that like we've seen it

it doesn't work if it worked it would

have worked by now

so try something different

you know be

when we talk about mutual aid you know

provide yourself be a resource as a


doesn't have to always be financial


you know sometimes it's space and time

and energy and

sharing context or sharing

insights that you may have that another

person may not have


and i want

to address

what happens and why it's dangerous to

really just not go from fragility to

volatility if you stay in fragility

you're actually

super harmful right because you think

you know

and so you cannot be taught


when someone tries to approach you and

you say you know i understand my white

fragility and then someone tries to kind



and a learning opportunity

do you really see it going well

you you have to be open and know that

you don't know so much

and i'm learning if i'm still learning

i can't i can't deal with anybody who's

who's got the i know exactly what's

going on attitude because there's no way

there's no way

you know

then you go say it with the other people

who know because

this is what you got i'm sorry there's

got to be more than this right


that is my

three-dimensional issue with white

fragility it's just

logically wrong


awareness is not anti-racism

and it's just directed and centered

around this white woman talking about

white things

and just using white supremacy tools of

capitalism and everything to

it drives me nuts

it drives me nuts um

and this is how language can be so


in your changing your behavior it's like

a thought-terminating cliche like oh

that's my white fragility and now you

don't have to do any work

but if you see yourself as volatile one

it respects your agency and your

autonomy and your individual impact you

can have as a human

like you can have major impact as a

human your intentions don't matter your

intentions are

not special i gotta tell you no one's

got like this special special

intention that we just don't understand

it's your impact that is unique

you specifically talking at that time

about that thing to that person has a

unique impact

so make use of that

but stop thinking that like

you're special like no one's special

everyone's unique we have unique impact

but you don't have any special

gifts or tools that

make you

above learning

about anything


remember to share and promote and plug

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we've got some really exciting news

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stay tuned

sign up for my newsletter and yes i

still have not sent one out but i will

be doing so

um and uh

you know

oh oh i almost forgot this week i

announced um our official community name

uh if you have not seen the video it's

on my tic tac but many of you have

we are now

well y'all are now

the weight watchers


wait watchers

why am i talking

isn't it so good oh it's weird to say

this alone in my closet and be as

excited as i am but it's so good wait


i'm ready for merch i'm ready for stuff

but let me you know

get my podcast together first i guess


hook your girl up with some resources we

can do more

all right i'm getting out of hand let's

return to the program

um i guess i should say like review this

podcast and give it five stars and stuff

i don't know sign up to my patreon por

favor please please please


it's just

they're just the where the where i feel

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and connected to y'all and you know


become a part of the weight watchers

over there maybe i'll i'll get some

specific stuff for y'all

oh something exciting is happening

outside this closet i'm gonna go find

out alright guys until next time

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